Vedic Ganesha –( Reject Untruth and accept Truth)


ARTICLE CONTRIBUTED BY SHRI KESHAV ARYA JI.

(The purport of a speech made by cenetarian Vedic Scholar Pandit Sudhakar ji on the occasion of Ganesh Chaturthi in Bangalore)

I do not hide the fact that I am a little embarrassed by the thought that you have chosen a wrong person to speak on Ganesh Chaturthi this evening. I know-none among you expects from me a song in praise of the traditional Ganesha, for you are well aware of the fact that I do not believe in the existence of any such Ganesha as is described in the puranas. Even so, I do believe in the Real Ganesha, whose description you may find both in Rigveda and Yajurveda. Let me request you at the outset that you may accept my words in the sense I give them and that you may not feel offended if something that is not in consonance with the traditional belief escapes my lips. I consider any opportunity to sit together, with seekers of Truth, exchange views and add something to our knowledge as a pleasant occasion. I thank those who have been instrumental in providing me with this opportunity.

Now, to the subject matter proper, I was telling you that I also believe in the vedic conception of Ganesha. Here it is :-

Ganaanaam tvaa Ganapathim havaamahé
Kavim Kaveenaamupamashravastamam.
jyeshtaraajam brahmanaam brahmanaspaté
Aa nah shrunvanootibhih seeda saadanam.    (Rigveda :2.23.1.)
Meaning : –
“(havaamahe) we invoke, (tvaa) Thee, (Ganapatim) the most respectable Lord, (Ganaanaam) of the countable, conceivable things and groups, (kavim). The One Truth-seer,(Kaveenaam) among the truth-seers, (Upamashravastamam)the One with the Highest reputation, the Most Praise worthy,and (Jyeshtaraajam) the Most brilliant, (brahmanaam) among the knowers of the vedas. (Brahmanaspate) Oh Lord and Protector of the universe! (shrunvan) acceding, (nah), to our request, (aa seeda) be enshrined, (Saadanam) in our hearts, (ootibhih) with Thy protecting forces.”

This is a clear picture of Ganesha. He is the Most respectable Lord and protector of all that comes under perception. He is the One knower of Truth in its entirety among truth-seers. He is the Most Praiseworthy and He is the Most Brilliant among those well-versed in the Vedas.

Again :-

Ganaanaam tvaa ganapatim havaamahé
Priyaanaam tvaa Priyapatim havaamahé,
Nidheenaam tvaa nidhipatim havaamahe.
vaso mama. Aahamajaani garbhadhamaa
tvamajaasi garbhadham.  (Yajurveda: 23. 19)

”(Havaamahe) we invoke, (tvaa) Thee, (Ganapatim) the Most respected Lord and Protector, (Ganaanaam) of all that is perceivable; (tvaa) Thee, (Priyapathim) the dear Lord and Protector, (Priyaanaam) of all that is dear; (Havaamahe) we invoke, (tvaa) Thee, (Nidhipatim) the Immanent Lord and Protector, (nidheenaam) of all hidden treasures. (Vaso) Oh Real Wealth! (mama) Thou art mine. (ajaani) Let me know Thee, (aa garbhadham) the upholder of the graspable universe. (Tvam) Thou, (aa ajaasi) knowest from all sides, (garbhadham) the universe that is the repository of the creative energy.

With the exception of the last two sentences, the mantra needs no further explanation. In addition to what has been said in the rigveda mantra, it is said that Ganapathi is the Dear Lord and Protector of all that is dear, and the Immanent Lord and Protector of the hidden treasures. In other words, Ganapathi is the Sole Lord and Protector of the whole universe—known and unknown, seen and unseen. In the last two sentences, the word ’garbhadha’ is used both for the creator and the creation, because in both is found the energy of creation.

Well, nowhere in the Vedas do we find the traditional Ganesha with an elephant’s head, Four hands, pot bellied with a snake tied round, the mouse, and, yes, a broken tusk. God being Omni-Present and Formless, Immanent and un-manifest, has no form whatsoever, save in the idle imagination of the people. If it be said that this traditional Ganesha is a different God different from the One who is the Creator, Protector and Destroyer of the universe, He does not deserve worship, because, it runs contrary to the teachings of the Vedaas.  Vedas say: – “yaekait tamu shtuhi krishteenaam vicharshanihi. Patirjajne vrishakratuh” (Rig: 6. 45.16)

(Tamu shtuhi) praise only Him, (ya ekait) who is only one, (vichar-shanih.) the witness, (Kristeenaam) of all the individual Souls. (Iajne) He is, (patih) the Lord and Protector, and (Vrishakratuh) the Creator who showers happiness on all’

I have heard people giving peculiar explanations for the curious figure that the traditional Ganesha cuts. They say—the trunk symbolizes ‘Omkar’, the elephant head signifies a large amount of brain, the ‘trishula’ directed against the head indicates control over the thought, the pot bellied—the bulging greed for worldly pleasures, the snake—the danger that surrounds such pleasures and the mysterious mouse—the intriguing fickleness of mind and so on. Such explanations can be given for any odd figure on Earth, but, they cannot quench the thirst for knowledge that a Truth-seeker feels intensely. .

After all, these imaginations cannot lead us to salvation.
The Vedas say:-

(”Tameva viditvaa) By Knowing Only Him, the man, (mrityum ati eti) crosses over death. (Na vidyate) There is no, (anyah panthah) other way, (ayanaaya) for spiritual progress. When this is the case, how can we first imagine peculiar forms of the formless God and then try to find all sorts of explanations  for them? Can we hope to achieve moksha by this unvedic and irrational process?

We are all believers in Vedic Dharma. It is our sacred duty to strictly adhere to the principles as enjoined upon all of us by the Vedas. Being human beings, endowed with a capacity to understand, discriminate and conclude, we should not blindly follow anything that passes for tradition. There are traditions and traditions——good and bad. A bad tradition does not turn good simply because it is antique; nor does a good tradition turn bad simply because it is novel.

Let us lend ready ears to this Vedic call :—

Yatpoorvyam maruto yachcha nootanam
Yaduchyaté vasavo yachcha shasyaté.
Vishvasya tasya bhavataa navédasah
Shubham yaataamanu rathaa avritsata.(Rigveda: 5. 55. 8.)

(Marutah) Oh mortals! (navedasah) You are all possessors of scant knwoledge, (vishvasya tasya  havata) Listen to all that, (yat poorvyam) which is ancient, (cha) and, (Yat nootanam) which is modern, (Yat uchyate) which is spoken, (cha) and, (Yat shasyate) which is given as a Scripture. (Vasavah) Oh  residents of the world! (Rathaah) Be Progressive. (Avritsata) March on, (Shubham yaataamanu) in the wake of those who move towards well-being and prosperity.

Can there be a nobler ideal, a more liberal outlook on life? But, this ideal of constant vigil and unhampered progress naturally does not appeal to those who are given to blind faith. Faith itself is not bad, but thoughtless faith, blind faith, never brings credit to human beings. Quest of Truth, realization of  Truth is the loftiest ideal that a man can set before himself.  lt is no use if we appear thorough  gentlemen, externally, but have no regard for truth in our hearts. Let me conclude this speech with another  mantra:-

Yuvam vastraani peevasaa vasaathé
Yuvorachchidraa mantavo ha sargaah.
Avaatiratamanritaani vishvaa
Ritena mitraavarunaa sachéthé.(Rigveda: 1. 152. 1)

(“Mitraavarunaa) Affectionate woman and strong willed, affliction-removing man! (Yuvam) Both of you, (vasaathe) put on, (peevasaa vastraani) strong clothes. (Yuvoh) your, (manthavah) thoughts, (ha) similarly (sargaah) actions be,(achchidraa) free from flaws. (avaatriratam) Reject, (vishvaaanritaani) all untruths. (sachethe) be united with, accept,(ritena) Truth.

I do not propose to add anything more to what is said in this mantra. It is self-explanatory. If I have given some food for your thought, I should be satisfied that l have done something useful.

May Ganapathi, the Omni-Present, Omni-Scient, Omni-Potent and Formless Lord and Protector of the universe shower His choicest blessings on all of us, that we may ever be prepared to reject untruth and accept Truth.

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Posted on February 24, 2012, in Vedas. Bookmark the permalink. 25 Comments.

  1. Namakar brothers/ God is great
    If someone translates this article in Hindi All people can understand true concept of Ganesha in Hinduism. Actually I daily up-down by train from my home to office. We have loudspeaker and mice facility also by which we pass our time in train by reciting the Ramayan and Bhajans. We start the program by reciting Ganesh Chalisa of Purans which is like this Pratham shree Ganesh Manaye, Mata Jinki Parvati Hai etc. etc. and no one knows the true Ganesha.

    Great Article.

    • brother

      you can help us by translating in hindi and by mailing to me.

      i will defininately upload it with your name.

      dr vivek arya

      • @Agniveerfans
        Sir, it is our moral duty being human and Indian to join & assist you for the cause of truth. I will definitely do my best.

    • Ganaanaam tvaa ganapatim havaamahé
      Priyaanaam tvaa Priyapatim havaamahé,
      Nidheenaam tvaa nidhipatim havaamahe.
      vaso mama. Aahamajaani garbhadhamaa
      tvamajaasi garbhadham. (Yajurveda: 23. 19)

      In more simpler way

      ,(Havaamahe) we invoke, (tvaa) Thee, (Ganapatim) the Most respected Lord and Protector, (Ganaanaam) of all that is perceivable;
      “PRIYANNAM PRIYAPATIM TVA HAWAMAHEY” where the meaning of pati is lord/master/protector of all. So, meaning will be Oh God! (PRIYANNAM) amongst the loved ones you are ‘PRIYAPATIM’ the supreme, loving lord/master. So, we (HAWAMAHEY) invoke (TVA) you. (TVAM) you (AJASI) HOLD (GARBHADHAM) the Prakriti in the shape of womb, from where the universe is generated (non-alive matter is generated). So, I may (AJANI) know (GARBHADHAM) the said Prakriti. Hence, mantra is that we must worship the Almighty God who creates, nurses and gives glory, who is lord of Prakriti and who holds all the seeds (i.e., matter from which universe is originated).
      http://www.vedmandir.com

  2. Ganesha is a divine concept who is symbolically shown as elephant headed. Intellectuals may note that above mentioned form is just a symbolic form NOT the exact Ganesha. The real Ganesha is different while it is shown as elephant headed to give a very important message embodied in Vedas and other scriptures. For example, a devotee must listen more and talk less. Ganesha has huge ears and small mouth.

    For details, see this image. http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_9vPNlqoYUtY/TR9piJzk1bI/AAAAAAAADcA/2QsR10E6skY/s1600/Ganesha+Symbolism+Picture+Ganesh+Image+Meanings.png

    Indian deities were deliberately portrayed in a specific manner to impart some learning to their devotees. Same is true for Shiv, Vishnu, Brahma, Ram, Krishna, Hanuman, Durga etc. too. By the law of attraction, whatever you focus, you become the same. So, you must focus on these attributes and become that in return. This is the best in Indian tradition. It does not support blind following but promotes learning by doing.

    Dr. Vivek Arya Sir, I would also like to contribute something. If I am permitted, kindly mention your email id.

    Thank you…

    • @God is Great
      Brother I am just party agree with you.
      _____________Ganesha is a divine concept who is symbolically shown as elephant headed. _________
      Too much symbolism has destroyed the Hinduism. Have not you listen Ganesh Arti in which he has father & mother also, so we can not deny the fact that we are not worshiper of true God. Yajurved mantra 31:3 : “Na Tasya Pratima Asti”. If Veda already denied any symbol of God why we are engaged in making too much symbols. When Mohamad Gory/Gajni invaded on Somanath Gujrat priests were praying before Shiva Idol to protect them, Idol worship made them ignorant and weak.

      • Yes! you are absolutely right brother. But merely criticizing the system won’t help. We need some leader who reforms the system and makes it better for the entire society. One thing I would just like to say here is: The problem is with time. Superstitions were popped in and false dogmas were added everywhere. Reformers came to save Dharma. Except a few like Swami Dayanand / Agniveer etc.; everybody thought of explaining the truth in people’s own language. That was the time when Puranas were written with motive of story based learning. Such a learning is simple for extreme novice devotees. As devotion progresses, the devotee must necessarily get out of it. Unfortunately, that did NOT happen.

        Let’s understand this with an example: a kid of age 6 or lesser addresses Moon with the name – चन्दा मामा। Though it scientifically seems illogical as Earth cannot have a brother; but even if a scientist hears the same, he does NOT start criticizing the kid. He knows that as the kid grows up, he will realize that Moon is a satellite of Earth. Now, suppose the child gets educated and still considers Moon as his uncle only, that is wrong. Same is the problem with Puranas. For the beginning of devotion, little bit symbolism is often needed. Child Moolshankar was a Shivlinga worshiper. Later on, he went in search of true Shiv because he realized that idol won’t do any good. Finally he got Shiv – who is inside that idol (the omnipresent) but NOT the idol itself (the formless) and then preached everyone about the same GOD. Now, he is known as Swami Dayanand. The problem is that today, people are just on the path of Moolshankar NOT Swamy Dayanand. That’s why Puranas were criticized & Hindus were attacked. (NOTE: Puranas were adulterated later on. That is obvious for story oriented learning.)

        Swami Dayanand / Agniveer criticized the system and questioned almost every single religion. That’s why, these are hated by many. Muslims / Christians / others don’t hate Shankaracharya, Madhwacharya, Nimbarkacharya, Ramanujacharya, Tulasidas, etc. They specially hate Dayanand / Agniveer. So, there is a tradeoff. Muslims claim to have refuted these. OK – we know the Muslim doctrine of Taqiyya but there are still many who might get trapped by these. That is the worry. We need to clear dust from divine Vedic message and then we must mass market Vedic worship. What do you say?

  3. God is great

    your doubts revolve around two questions.

    first is that idol worship is for beginners

    second is that swami dayanand critisized others so he is most hated.

    reply to first question

    visit this link its about 25 most common arguments about idol worship

    http://agniveerfans.wordpress.com/2011/09/25/idol-worship/

    Q. 1. God is infinite and we are finite. It is difficult for the finite to have a true conception of the infinite. Idol brings the infinite within the range of the finite and enables us to have glimpse of it.

    A. the absurdity of the argument is clear at the very face of it. The purpose of the worship was to realize the conception of the infinite. First of all it is not possible for us to drag the infinite down to the level of the infinite. The infinite does not dance at our suggestions and cannot change itself to please us or to suit our convenience. Secondly, whatever glimpses we thus have are the glimpses, not of the infinite, but of the gross object which lies before us. If by worshipping the idol, you are satisfied that you realized god, it is your self delusion and can be easily seen by a little introspection. A man may think himself learned whole he is not, or a king while he is not. Who can check him from doing so? But the fact is that an idol worshipper remains an idol worshiper all his life and does not rise an inch above. To say that the finite cannot realize the conception of the infinite is a verbal jugglery. You say that if you realize the infinite, you make him finite, as he has come within your finite ken and is no longer infinite. But the fact is that the finite is not ill suited to realize the infinite nature of the infinite, by trying to find its limits and to fail. A bird flies in the sky and thinks that it will soon reach the limits. But when it is tried and finds the end of the sky is limitless. Similarly when trying to have a conception of god, the soul finds that however high it may sour, it cannot get an end, the conception of the infinitude of the infinite dawns upon it. The worshippers aim is to know god and not to know the whole of him. A child knows its mother so far as she is its mother. To know the whole of the mother is impossible for it and unnecessary too. I know that god is my god. This satisfies me. He may be much more than that. I cannot know it. My not being able to know it means that he is infinite and I have a glimpse of his infinitude. Idols are an obstacle in our way of having this realization.

    Q.2 God is invisible. We cannot see him. Therefore we make his representations, so that we might satisfy our cravings to see him.

    A. when god is invisible, how can he represented by visible objects? Visibility means grossness; grossness means limitations. The form you see is not gods but of the idol, the size you see is not gods but of the idol; the colors you see is not gods but of the idol. In fact whatever is visible to your physical eyes belongs to the idol and has no connection whatsoever with the nature of god. Wherever in scriptures, there is a mention of seeing god it is all figurative and means realization. It is very unfortunate that the world is mad after seeing him who cannot be seen with the physical eye, after hearing him who cannot be heard with physical ears. The Upanishads clearly warns this delusion when it says – he is not sound, he is not touch, he is not form, he is not divisible. (Kathopanishad)

    This all means that the eye cannot see god and it is a vain quest on the part of man to try to see him. People are mad after seeing him. They observe all sorts of practices, undergo all sorts of austerities, and bear all sorts of practices in order that they might see the invisible. The Hindu puranas and other mythologies as well as other serious religious scriptures contain stories that encourage this quest. There are anecdotes of persons who performed such and such austerity for such and such period and god was in end pleased to present himself to the devotee in his bodily shape. The prophets are said to have traveled to heaven in order to have a talk with the almighty. These descriptions, if figurative, are generally taken in their literalness and devotionally disposed people feel a sort of itch to get the same result. The credulity of the devotees provides and easy market for the hypocrite who contrives various devices to ensnare the credulous. Ignorance about the true nature of god, fabricated or exaggerated stories of the past saints, temptations to ensnare common people and delusive elementary successes all continue to produce a mischievous circle from which the simple worshipper finds it difficult to free himself. The Upanishad says that god is arupa or without a form and the eyes cannot see him, ears cannot hear him. one thing that people need to be taught is that just as they cannot see their ownself and yet they feel that they are, similarly god is invisible , will remain invisible and will never assume visibility under any circumstances or for any reason.

    Q.3 Admitted that idols cannot represent god, they have another utility. Some physical object is necessary for concentrating the mind, and idols can serve that purpose

    A. Emphatically not! No idols, in any temple of the world, public or private, are ever used for concentrating the mind nor were they originally designed for this end. It is futile to achieve mental concentration in temples. If the reader does not agree with me he should go to any temple and make an experiment upon his own person or watch the devotees educated and uneducated both. If you wish to practice concentration of mind, you shall have to be as away from temples and idols as possible. The mind concentrating devices commonly in vogue in these days or in olden days do not consist of idols. It is not relevant here to discuss or examine the efficiency or even comparative value of these devices. They may have different degrees of utility, not as objects of worship, but as instruments of teaching elementary lessons in mind concentration; but they do not come under the category of idolatry and it is unfair to drag them to the discussion in order to prove a thing which has not the remotest connection with it. If an object is required from concentrating the mind, a small black spot on a piece of paper is sufficient, or the tip of your finger will do. But will you call it idol worship? In Sankhya Darshan, Kapila calls the fully concentrated mind one which has freed itself from all physical impressions or association. In elementary lessons, it may be useful to choose some very tiny objects. But we must remember that the selection of a tiny object means, in other exclusion of bigger objects, or narrowing down the range of vision to its irreducible minimum. It is wrongly suspected that mind concentration business needs a gross object. On the contrary, it needs elimination of gross factors as far as possible. The un-concentrated mind, before its training, was habituated to wander in gross objects of a very wide range. This wandering habit was the disease of which we wanted to cure the mind. Therefore, we tried to narrow the range of its ramblings, by fastening it to a very small tether and shortening the rope. The process is to minimize grossness and not to augment it. The object is to eliminate this grossness altogether. Between the elementary lesson and the desired end, there are intermediary stages where a tiny object, having the least possible grossness, is retained or is allowed to linger. This retainment of an unavoidable element is no argument for worshipping idols. Idols with their thousand ornamental embellishments and historical or legendry associations cannot but tend to increase mental wanderings and are no help in concentration. The process is just the reverse and increases the disease instead of curing it. No teacher of mind concentration is so foolish as to advise you to go to the temple of Jagannatha at Puri or Meenakshi at Madurai or Shiva in Rameshwaram for receiving your first lessons there. And if advanced in the practice, you will yourself find such places a great nuisance and fly from them if you want to make any progress

  4. God is great

    now your second reply.

    all of whom you are mentioning are sects not dharma or religion.

    when swami dayanand critically analysis muslims and christians practices as he had done in satyarth prakash sects or cult followers are very happy.

    and when swami dayanand asks them to remove dirt from their own homes they start opposing him.

    why this double standard.

    its something like ignoring dirt in our own homes and critisizing neighbours for keeping their home dirty.

    swami dayanand ji had clearly written in satyarth prakash that my aim is to denounce falsehood and promote truth.

    read contribution of swami dayanand to hindu solidarity.

    http://agniveerfans.wordpress.com/2011/08/21/contributions-of-swami-dayanand-to-hindu-society-2/

    • Sir, I fully agree with you. I myself don’t worship any idol. I too believe in formless GOD just like anybody else follower of Vedas. The arguments were actually put forward by few people. They said

      AIR IS EVERYWHERE. WHY YOU REQUIRE A FAN THEN? GOD IS EVERYWHERE BUT WE NEED A TEMPLE TO HAVE THE FEEL. IN TEMPLE, PIOUS PERSONS ARE SUPPOSED TO COME INTO TEMPLE AND HENCE WE GET +ve VIBRATIONS. GOD IS OMNIPRESENT AND HENCE EXISTS IN BEER BAR TOO. BUT THERE, ALL SINNERS COME AND HENCE NO POSSIBILITY OF GETTING NOBLE VIBRATIONS THERE. TO HAVE THE FEEL OF GOD, IT IS RECOMMENDED TO GO TO A TEMPLE.

      I showed fallacy in this argument but they didn’t agree. The biggest problem is that humans tend to go with traditional methodologies only and never appreciate someone challenging their faiths. There are still millions of Hindus who daily visit temples to realize GOD. This is the impact of Puranas. ISKCON quotes from Bhagavata Puran and calls it Vedic literature. Brahmakumari quotes from Linga Purana and say that all religions coincide with it. Majority of Hindus follow these hypocrites. We need a solution to this problem. Then there is another Hindu – Mr. Devdutta Pattanaik who quotes stories from Puranas to teach management principles. What can be done about this?

      Sri Sri Ravi Shankar has said, “Vedas say – न तस्य प्रतिमा अस्ति ॥ This means that GOD does NOT have any symbol. It doesn’t say that GOD does not exist in symbol. So, Hindus worship GOD within that symbol and NOT the symbol itself.” What do you say on this?

      Regarding Swami Dayanand, he criticized the sect followers – TRUE but do you know how the sect followers replied back? They showed errors in Vedas and used Arya Samaj’s commentary of Atharva Veda 12.5.45 to 12.5.72 to show that Vedas too mean violence. They did NOT manage to clear dust from their faith BUT tried to show that Swami Dayanand is partial. It is necessary to save innocent people from these traps. Sir, can you just reply that what does Atharva Veda 12 Kanda 5 Sukta actually means?

      So called Mahatma, Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi was himself against Satyarth Prakash. Ref: http://www.vedpedia.com/node/32

      Due to Gandhian impact and him being the so called father of nation, Hindus don’t believe in Satyarth Prakash. We need to do something about this. What do you say?

  5. @GOD IS GREAT
    Brother, to attack someone’s faith whatever illogical may be that, really irritates the followers of it. When I read Satyarth Parkash first time I do not want to believe in it & my ego does not allowing me to change my stance. I told to my father to return the book from whom he had taken that to read. But somewhere in my bottom of heart I had feeling that I was trying to kill the truth and I had feeling to find out the truth. (Satyarth Parkash) has left me in doubts (regarding my faith) on which I do not want to think due to my ego of ” only my faith is true” and others are false. After few days I asked to my father where is book I want to read it again. Because something in bottom of my heart insisting me to seek the truth leaving behind all ego.

  6. I have to disagree with those who are singing praises of Satya Prakash and attacking cults of Vedic faith. They in fact expound the true meaning of Sanatan Dharma and puts it across to all in a logical manner. Statutes are not worshiped rather venerated and used for concentration. To worship the Vedic way will be extremely difficult esp in Kaliyug as the mind is too deep in corruption. Lord Krishna made it very clear that in Kaliyug it is next to impossible to still the mind, thus indulging in Bhakti Yoga, the act of doing service to GOD, e.g. making offerings, puja, etc. Will help one reduce yr karmas and would aid in imbibing Vedic spirituality. Ishwar in whatever form you choose to see HIM will accept yr sincere devotion.

    Trying to bring back the potent Vedic practise of the Rishis is folly, humans presently cant even give up eating meat and you want them to walk the Rishi path. Itihasa and Puranas are not false doctrines rather they simplify Vedic teachings to the current masses so that they may have a better understanding. The problem arises when amateurs try to interpret and translate them, leading to distortions and misunderstandings. We must not allow religious influence of the middle east and the west to dictate our religion. These are new age religions with almost zero spirituality, u can research on their history and you’ll see. For those who want the essence of Vedanta, read and study the Bhagvad Gita. Thats all you need.

    • @rkp
      ________I have to disagree with those who are singing praises of Satyarath Prakash and attacking cults of Vedic faith.__________
      Okey, but where do you found book wrong?
      _________They in fact expound the true meaning of Sanatan Dharma and puts it across to all in a logical manner__________
      What is meaning of Ganesh Father and Mother? Is Ganesha not almighty lord? If not why are you engaged in worshiping imaginary God?
      _______Statutes are not worshiped rather venerated and used for concentration_________
      Where Krishna said in Geeta to concentrate before statues?
      ________-To worship the Vedic way will be extremely difficult esp in Kaliyug as the mind is too deep in corruption._______
      Do not make excuses if you do not want to rise early in the morning to contemplate/communion with God through Yoga it is your laziness not the fault of kaliyug. God laws are eternal and unchangeable and time/period was divided into Satyayuga, Treta, Dwapar, Kaliyuga to track the particular event.
      ________Itihasa and Puranas are not false doctrines rather they simplify Vedic teachings to the current masses so that they may have a better understanding.___________
      They are mostly interpolated Text for instance as per Shri Devi Bhagwat Puran Goddess Durga created Brahma, Vishnu, Mahesh and she asked for sex and marriage to Brhama when he denied to have sex with mother Durga burned him into ashes, same happened with Vishnu & when Shiva/Mahesh turn came he replied that he will do sex but some other form of Durga not this.
      What authenticity do you found in such stories of Puran?
      ___________humans presently cant even give up eating meat and you want them to walk the Rishi path____________
      Where do you found meat eating advice in Geeta by Yogeshwar Krishan?

  7. rkp

    the present form of worship which you are mentioning is mere collection of superstitions.

    just explain why hindu gods are engaged in illicit relationship, non veg eating, killing poor ones, fighting themselves, behaving like ignorants in puranas if puranas are simplified version of vedas.

    dr vivek arya

  8. Truth seeker & Agniveer fans.

    I shall not bother to debate you, instead I would rather live it to Lord Krishna to decide the truth and you’ll have yr answer soon. Yr translations of Puranic text is wrong. Lets see if Arya Samaj is stronger or Lord Krishna.

    • Namaskaar brother rkp!

      Sorry to interrupt this debate but I would like to say something. Just my viewpoints, read and reply.

      Firstly, are you inspired by Islamic doctrine? Because It is Islamic practice to have enmities between various sects. Islam supports Shia Sunni war, attacks on Sufi etc. Hinduism does not advocate stupid practices. So, it is better NOT to fight with Arya Samajis. If you are not influenced with Islamic tenets, then you must be knowing that We as Hindus require unity. If we start criticizing each other, who will manage Jihadis?

      Secondly, you are promoting idol worship. Whether OR not, idol is to be venerated; that is not an issue at all. The issue is – how to take care of mutual brotherhood. Though Gita was revealed at the times of war, it speaks of brotherhood. Our goal (as humans) is to make the world a better place to live. If you are just afraid of Arya Samaj criticizing idol worship, what is your reaction to Abrahamics who are taught to destroy idolators.

      Thirdly, understand why idol worship is stupid. Do you know, how Islamization happened? Hindus were praying to idols to fight with tyrants. In Gita, Krishna told Arjun to fight in real terms (of that era). The words of incarnation (Gita: 4.7 and 4.8) backfired on Hindus due to superstitious belief. Everybody thought that Krishna shall come and destroy evil. They must do nothing but wait for Krishna to come. Though Hindus were capable to fight, they prayed in front of idols to fight. That is not worship but superstition. Hope you get my point. Krishna / Ram / Shiv etc. – they all are one and they don’t promote such a stupid practice. Let’s not venerate an idol to the extent it becomes superstition.

      Fourthly, you said that Vedas are not followable in the era of Kali yuga. Please answer what is era? and who made it so? Were humans having 4 brains during Sat – yuga and the number decreased during each subsequent era? Was there no free will in Sat – yuga? OR was their modification in human body in that era? The answers to these is simple that while everything was same, thoughts and actions were different. It is not fault of Vedas if someone does not follow them. Which Shloka says that Vedas are not followed in Kali yuga? The eras are time frames and indicate the checklist that how people were good once upon a time and how the quality was deteriorated. For example, if everyone follows divine mantras of Vedas, Kali Yuga is automatically replaced by Sat – yuga. The path of liberation is this way and not the other way round.

      Fifthly, it is impossible to get rid of idol worship. While Muslims claim of no idol, they have actually idolated Mohammed. Similarly, Christians have also idolated Jesus. This is the biggest problem with humans. As per M. K. Gandhi, Swami Dayanand has idolated Vedas. Let’s not idolate a person but the teachings. If you want to worship Krishna in the true sense, you should follow the path which Krishna laid. This is what Swami Ramdev has said – समाज की यही दुर्गति है। पुजा करनी है तो व्यक्तित्व की करो। व्यक्ति की नही। Hope this is clear in your mind. You need not worship Krishna as such but you may worship (follow) what Krishna said. For example, he says in Gita 8:7 —
      तस्मात्सर्वेषु कालेषु माम्नुस्मरि युध्य च।
      मय्यर्पितमनोबुद्धिर्मामेवैष्यस्यसंशयम् ॥
      Therefore, in all times, remember GOD and do fight (follow your duty). With your mind and intellect devoted to GOD, you will attain that for no doubt.

      (As per Yogis, so called worship me doctrine of Gita is Tattwa pujan and not Vyakti pujan).

      So, as a devotee of Krishna we must worship GOD and follow our duty of fighting against injustice. Let’s not wait for Krishna alone to come and manage but also to do our bit. This was missing and superstitions were popped in.

      Hope I have done justice to your question.
      ॐ शांति: शांति: शांति: ।

    • @rkp
      Namaste Brother,
      ______I shall not bother to debate you, instead I would rather live it to Lord Krishna to decide the truth and you’ll have yr answer soon_________
      BTW where was Krishna when HIndu were converted forcefully and all idols of Hindus were destroyed in Arabs countries, Afganistan, Pakistan, and all over the world. Where was Krishna when Hindu’s woman were raped by foreign invaders? To know real Krishna go through this article who was a “Yogeshwar”
      http://agniveerfans.wordpress.com/2011/08/04/lord-krishna-an-enlightening-personality/

  9. @GOD IS GREAT
    Namaste Brother,

    Brother, I can understand your worry it is shows your good heartedness and concern for humanity. But one thing you must notice अज्ञानता और इस्लाम साथ – साथ चलते है! Wherever is ignorance there is Islam, it may be in any form. ज्ञान और इस्लाम का आपस में 3 6 का आकड़ा है जहा पर ज्ञान There is no place for Islam. How can light and darkness live together? When self introspection starts Islam gets diminish. Today while chatting a website
    http://www.islamreligion.com/
    How to convert in Islam I asked What should be my stand on the creation being a Muslim. What will be correct according to Quran whether it is first creation of Allah Since eternity or Creation-preservation-dissolution by Allah has been happening since eternity? He did not reply me and said there is no mention in Quran in this matter. Then I said so in this case can I believe which Hinduism says creation-preservation-dissolution since eternity. He replied that if Hinduism says like this it is against Quran and it should be rejected immediately. Then I said Hinduism says God is one, then I should reject it also because Hinduism says this and he failed to answer and disconnect me from chatting. Mohammedans are in great trouble to answer this they neither can say this is first creation of Allah since eternity nor support the second one “universe creation-preservation-dissolution” has been done by Allah since eternity. Because second is supported by Hinduism. This will be like if one ask what will result of 2+2. Islam neither can say 3 nor 4 because 4 answered by Hinduism. As per Islamic websites/scholars we should reject 2+2=4 because Hinduism says this and it is against Quran. How a rational mind can accept Islam or any rational mind have no option but to leave Islam. Islam is the result of human ignorance. ज्ञान के द्वारा ही अज्ञान का नाश हो सकता है!

    • Namaskaar Sir

      1 ::: Yes, what you are saying is truth. But, something wrong is going to happen. See this link where a PAK Muslim shows fallacy in Islam

      danielpipes.org/comments/87948

      On the top of the page, there is written:” in response to reader comment.” See that link too where the writer (Radada) considers Judaism as the death of Islam.

      A PAK Muslim went to spain and after getting selfless love from their non muslim population, the human within him got awaken suddenly and he happily filed a petition to ban Quran. This guy named as Imraan Firasat; now runs — mundosinislam.com — That is a Spanish term. In English, it means WORLD WITHOUT ISLAM. He also runs youtube channel Imraan Firasat which shows Urdu cartoons of Mohammed.

      Israel is killing the terrorists in Palestine. America is also taking care of terrorists. Even Mother nature is supporting them by putting Earthquakes in Islamic nations. Now, the question is: What is wrong with India?

      2 ::: There was a ban Quran petition filed in Calcutta. I don’t know what happened of that. Islam is a narrow minded cult. Comparing Islam and any religion is same as comparing wolf with humans. So, finally it is fight between humans and wolves worldwide.

      3 ::: Also, I found one more link where the author gives a new direction to the debated question: Whether Islam was spread by sword?

      mostintolerantreligion.wordpress.com/2012/03/10/islam-was-spread-with-sword/#comment-4544

      Now the question is that if Muslims use sword, that can be taken care. But, if they use what is written on the link, poor innocent Hindus would be trapped. How to save them?

      He concludes Islamic logic as: while NON Muslims quote Quran out of context, Muslims follow the same out of context. See the irony. No Muslim can prove it wrong.

      4 ::: Looking at the present conditions, it seems that we are approaching destruction. There is a news that world will end in 2012. I don’t know whether that is true OR not but I pray to both GOD / mother nature to end everything and restart the creation.

      This time, don’t give free will to humans. They don’t deserve it. Since GOD is all merciful (as agreed by every religion); a dictator GOD will be better compared to modern condition . Though falsehood perishes in the end, but who knows how many innocent truthful beings will be sacrificed till this “end time”? Nature / GOD ‘s management of evil is too slow and highly delayed. Anyways, I will just end it.

      May peace prevail.
      ॐ शांति: शांति: शांति: ॥
      जयतु भारतं ॥

    • Sir,

      also see this
      http://www.hindujagruti.org/activities/campaigns/religious/communal-violence-bill/

      Govt is hitting more and more on Hindus. Why not you go into politics? Only good champions can change the national condition.

  10. om shanti to all . May our lord parmatma fulfill all your desires i want your help brothers:-)
    i heard dr.naik saying about ganesha chaturtha on youtube dawat ya tabahi .i felt very bad. religion is not any one’s property they have no right to say such things about other faith. i’m a follower of veda recently i learned about dr.zakir naik somebody gave of his cd six months ago can you tell me what’s happening…..?vedic dharma ki stapna ke baad hi ibraham dwara islam aur christianity aayi.

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